It’s a Matter of Choice

It’s a Matter of Choice

We often hear of objections to the GLBT community: “It’s a matter of choice – to sin or not to sin.”  I believe the resolution of the conflict in the various Christian churches over full inclusion in the life of the church is a matter of choice, not of gender or sexual orientation, but of where we put our faith.

I note in the article concerning Rev. Amy DeLong , http://www.rmnetwork.org/trial-of-rev-amy-delong-approaches/, that it concludes that the trial is “incompatible with scripture . . . [and] with our larger Church Tradition . . .”  I do support Rev. DeLong in this matter.  But I think it is as mistaken to quote scripture as though it is definitive on loving inclusion of the GLBT community within our own  as are the various biblical arguments for judgment and exclusion.

To some degree faith is a gift; but it also involves choice.  I am reminded of Hans Kung’s book Does God Exist?  He proceeds through the proofs of God and concludes that there is no ironclad proof of God’s existence.  He then traces the proofs that there is no God to its ultimate conclusion of nihilism. He likewise concludes that it cannot be proven that there is no God, or that there is no purpose in life.  As I interpret my recollection of the book, one is left with a choice: choose God or no God and take the consequences: meaning in life or no meaning.

Eric Fromm, in Psychoanalysis and Religion asserts that a healthy religion is necessary to mental health.  Interesting coming from a person popularly categorized as an atheist and a humanist. He defines religion as that which gives us an object of devotion and a sense of orientation.  Rev. Bruggeman says that the command not to worship idols also means not to reduce God to our private purposes, as in church fund-raising.  Have we idolized God into the form of our image, our prejudices or our purposes?  That would certainly be contrary to the Jewish (Christian Old Testament) notion of the nameless God and the living God.

How does this apply to my view of GLBT issues?  We must accept that the Bible can be used to support almost any position, no matter how disparate.   We find the same of Jewish, Muslim and other sacred scriptures.  We like things to be black and white, right or wrong.  But, as our world is a mixture, from our individual point of view, of good and bad, so is our scripture.  The Wesleyan Quadrilateral recognizes this.  In this blog, I have attempted to set out the various biblical arguments used by some Christians to judge GLBT issues (sometimes politely distinguished as “discernment”) and, at the opposite end of the spectrum, I set out a homosexual’s biblical argument justifying his sexual orientation.

I suggest here and in the blog that we will not find clear, consistent answers in the Bible on the issues of gender, sexuality or sexual orientation.  We are in the same position Hans Kung found himself on the issue of whether God exists:  we must make a choice, and that choice will have practical effects: ranging from “life has meaning” to “it has no meaning;” or from, “I am the center and condition of all existence”  to “life is bigger than I am;” or “I am the author  of my fate” to “life is something that happens to me.”  My father, Rev. Edgar F. Wheeler, once put it to me this way, “People think Christianity is all about dying and going to heaven.  I say, ‘No.  It is about living a life of eternal significance.’”

For my part I choose for my object of devotion and sense of orientation Matthew’s quotes of Jesus: “Inasmuch as you did or didn’t do it unto others, you did or didn’t do it unto me;” “By their fruits you will know them.”  To paraphrase a great figure in another day and situation, “Choose you this day whom you will serve.”  Life involves choice.  It just does.  Make your choice and see what kind of fruit it bears.  Does it bear hatred and exclusion or love, respect and inclusion?

In this blog, I note the biblical contradictions and I suggest that if you can find an honest way to both judge and to love unconditionally, to both judge the act and love the “sinner,” and if it bears good fruit, do it.  As for me, I must make a choice between the two.  I can’t hold onto judgment of another’s gender or sexual orientation, whether by choice or circumstance, and still love the person.  I choose to love unconditionally and share in the rich give-and-take of community.

 

Next blog post: “Clergy Call for Justice and the Quality” by Bishop Minerva C, Carconia               https://wordpress.com/post/lovejudgenot.wordpress.com/151

United Methodist Groups and Positions on Homosexuality

See http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_umc3.htm for an excellent article examining different churches and groups in the United Methodist denomination, both positive and negative on the issue of homosexuality.

Discussion

What if Rev. Juillart were a Methodist clergywoman?  What should she have done when she met the woman and discovered that she had “feelings” for her?

What should she have done when the relationship developed into a lesbian relationship (whatever that means?)

If she lived with that woman in a loving, but nonsexual relationship, would that make a difference?

What effect did the much later lesbian relationship have upon Rev. Juillart’s teenage call to the ministry, if any?

What reaction do you have to “the Sacramento 95?”

What is the significance of acts of Civil Disobedience?

Why should the fact that there were so many ministers involved in the service of union performed by the Sacramento 95 make a difference in how the UMC applied its Discipline?

Why should the outcome of that union service be different from that of Rev. Jimmy Creech?

What significance do you see in the act of Rev. Jimmy Creech?  In the UMC’s discipline of him?

What is your opinion of the Reconciling Congregations?  Pros and cons?

What implications do expenditures for reconciliation have concerning the Discipline provision prohibiting expenditures for promotiing the acceptance of homosexuality?

What of the Transforming Congregations?  Pros and cons?

Do you see the conflict over homosexuality in the UMC as different from “ordinary” bias against bi-sexuals or trans-sexuals?

Do you see any way to resolve the conflict other than splitting the church?

 

Next blog post: Cry, “Justice!”     https://wordpress.com/post/lovejudgenot.wordpress.com/124

Beyond Homosexuality: What is Trans-sexual

See http://transsexual.org/ for a discussion of What Transsexuality Is: Definition, Cause, and History

 

Next blog post: United Methodist Groups and Positions on Homosexuality               https://wordpress.com/post/lovejudgenot.wordpress.com/103

Is There a Gay Gene? What If . . . ?

See http://drdeborahserani.blogspot.com/2006/05/genetics-and-sexuality-gay-gene.html for studies to determine if there is a genetic basis for homosexuality.  The author, Dr. Deborah Serani, reviews studies on the issue and she finds them inconclusive.  She notes that, “Rev. Mohler was astute with his statement to fellow Southern Baptists that homosexuality might have a biological base.”  And Rev. Mohler asks, “What if?” 

See, also, http://genetics.suite101.com/article.cfm/sexual_behavior_in_mice for an article by Barry Starr entitled “Pheremones Decide Mice Sexuality; Sexual Behaviour and Genetics Study Reveals Causes of Bisexuality”

 

What would it hurt if we suspended judgment on homosexuality until more evidence can be gathered concerning any physical determinants of the orientation?

Discuss

What do we really have to lose by assuming that the answer may be in the affirmative and so we treat it, until proven otherwise, as though it is not a choice but a biologically determined condition?

 

Next blog post: Two Evangelicals on Gay Marriage               https://wordpress.com/post/lovejudgenot.wordpress.com/99

Psychiatric Association: Homosexuality Is Not a Pathology

See  http://www.jeramyt.org/gay/gayhealth.html for the source of the article, below.

Homosexuality is Not a Pathology

 1) Professional Opinions

One of the primary turning points in the official acceptance of the healthy mental status of homosexuals came in 1973 when the American Psychiatric Association voted to remove homosexuality from the DSM-IV, the primary tool used by psychiatrists to diagnose patients with various mental illnesses.

Historically, psychoanalysts have been the primary opponents to the depathologization of homosexuality in the 1973 APA decision, Socarides and Bieber being by far the most vocal opponents of the decision. However, in a recent survey of psychoanalysts (n=82; Friedman) they found that “no respondents strongly endorsed the type of pathological model proposed by Socarides” (p. 84), and that “the responses of the group as a whole were more towards a health than illness model.”

2) Gay Relationships

a) 40-60% of gay men, and 45-80% of lesbians are in a steady relationship

b) Studies of older homosexual people show that gay relationships lasting over 20 years are not uncommon

c) In a large sample of couples followed for 18 months the following “break up” statistics were observed: lesbians=22%, gay=16%, cohabiting heterosexuals=17%, married heterosexuals=4%

d) Homosexual and heterosexual couples matched on age, etc, tend not to differ in levels of love and satisfaction, nor in their scores on other standardized scales

e) gay/lesbian parents report no greater stress than heterosexuals, and children are not adversely affected by being raised by homosexual families

3) Homosexuals are no more promiscuous or predatory than heterosexuals

Statistical research indicates that gay men may have fewer number of sexual partners than heterosexuals.

c) Homosexuals are NOT more likely to be child molesters. In a random sample of 175 child sex offenders 76% report having exclusive adult heterosexual behavior, and 24% report having adult bisexual behavior. The sexual attraction towards children is a pathology unrelated to sexual orientation.

4) Psychological Testing Affirms the Mental Health of Homosexuals

This represents the evidence that homosexuality is not pathological, and comes from studies that were primarily done in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s. There were a flurry of studies done after the classical study by Evelyn Hooker in 1957, which produced the large body of studies from the 60’s -70’s. Then the studies dwindle down as the 80’s progress, and very few studies can be found in the 90’s. This is because all of the evidence is convergent, so no further studies were warranted, and the conclusion was that homosexuality evidenced no pathological characteristics that were significantly different from heterosexuals.

 

Next blog post: Is There a Gay Gene? What If…?                  https://wordpress.com/post/lovejudgenot.wordpress.com/95

Offenses Punishable by Death

Exodus 20

13 “You shall not kill.

Exodus 21

12 “Anyone who strikes a man and kills him shall surely be put to death. . . .  14 [I]f a man schemes and kills another man deliberately, take him away from my altar and put him to death.

15 “Anyone who attacks his father or his mother must be put to death.

16 “Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death.

17 “Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.

The Old Testament is clear that homosexuality is an “abomination,” as stated in Leviticus 18:22, just a few lines below the edict in Leviticus 11:10-12 stating that eating shrimp is an abomination.  (http://www.livescience.com/health/070320_bad_homosexuality.html)

Leviticus 20

1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘Any Israelite or any alien living in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech must be put to death. The people of the community are to stone him.

9 ” ‘If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.

10 ” ‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

11 ” ‘If a man sleeps with his father’s wife, he has dishonored his father. Both the man and the woman must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

12 ” ‘If a man sleeps with his daughter-in-law, both of them must be put to death. What they have done is a perversion; their blood will be on their own heads.

13 ” ‘If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

14 ” ‘If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you.

15 ” ‘If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal.

16 ” ‘If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

27 ” ‘A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.’ ”

Leviticus 24

10 Now the son of an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father went out among the Israelites, and a fight broke out in the camp between him and an Israelite. 11 The son of the Israelite woman blasphemed the Name with a curse; so they brought him to Moses. . . .

13 Then the LORD said to Moses: 14 “Take the blasphemer outside the camp. All those who heard him are to lay their hands on his head, and the entire assembly is to stone him. 15 Say to the Israelites: ‘If anyone curses his God, he will be held responsible; 16 anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death.

17 ” ‘If anyone takes the life of a human being, he must be put to death. 23 Then Moses spoke to the Israelites, and they took the blasphemer outside the camp and stoned him. The Israelites did as the LORD commanded Moses

Numbers 15

32 While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the LORD said to Moses, “The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp.” 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses.

Numbers 35

16 ” ‘If a man strikes someone with an iron object so that he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to death. 17 Or if anyone has a stone in his hand that could kill, and he strikes someone so that he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to death. 18 Or if anyone has a wooden object in his hand that could kill, and he hits someone so that he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to death. 19 The avenger of blood shall put the murderer to death; when he meets him, he shall put him to death. 20 If anyone with malice aforethought shoves another or throws something at him intentionally so that he dies 21 or if in hostility he hits him with his fist so that he dies, that person shall be put to death; he is a murderer. The avenger of blood shall put the murderer to death when he meets him.

 Deuteronomy 7

2 If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the LORD gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God in violation of his covenant, 3 and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars of the sky, 4 and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, 5 take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death. . . . 7 The hands of the witnesses must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people.

Deuteronomy 13

[If a prophet or soothsayer bids you follow other gods, 5 [t]hat prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God . . .  [If anyone tells you, “let’s go worship other gods], Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. 9 You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

12 [If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in, “Let us go and worship other gods,” and if it is true], 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. 16 Gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy 21

18 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. . . . 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death.. . .

Deuteronomy 22

13 If a man takes a wife and, after lying with her, dislikes her 14 and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,”  20 If . . . the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death.

22 If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die.

23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife.

Joshua 7

[If someone steals something that was devoted to the Lord], 15 [h]e who is caught with the devoted things shall be destroyed by fire, along with all that belongs to him.

19 Then Joshua said to Achan, “My son, give glory to the LORD, the God of Israel, and give him the praise. Tell me what you have done; do not hide it from me.”  20 Achan replied, “It is true! I have sinned against the LORD, the God of Israel. This is what I have done: 21 When I saw in the plunder a beautiful robe from Babylonia, two hundred shekels of silver and a wedge of gold weighing fifty shekels, I coveted them and took them. They are hidden in the ground inside my tent, with the silver underneath.”  24 Then Joshua, together with all Israel, took Achan son of Zerah, the silver, the robe, the gold wedge, his sons and daughters, his cattle, donkeys and sheep, his tent and all that he had, to the Valley of Achor. 25 . . . Then all Israel stoned him, and after they had stoned the rest, they burned them.

John 8

1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11″No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

John 10

31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33″We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’? 35If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

 

Next blog post: Scriptures on GLBT Subjects               https://wordpress.com/post/lovejudgenot.wordpress.com/70

Thou Shalt Not Kill, but . . .

The Bible is often quoted as authority for action as applied to present circumstances.  As applied to the GLBT, it is often quoted for exclusion of them from the church community or its leadership, or to justify ostracizing them.  How sure can we be of such commands as we apply them to our circumstances?  Let’s look at the Ten Commandment command, “Thou shalt not kill” and its many permutations, its contradictions, or its exceptions.

Exodus 20:13

Thou shalt not kill.

Numbers 21

1 When the Canaanite king of Arad, who lived in the Negev, heard that Israel was coming along the road to Atharim, he attacked the Israelites and captured some of them. 2 Then Israel made this vow to the Lord : “If you will deliver these people into our hands, we will totally destroy their cities.” 3 The Lord listened to Israel’s plea and gave the Canaanites over to them. They completely destroyed them and their towns; so the place was named Hormah. . .

31 So Israel settled in the land of the Amorites. . . .

34 The Lord said to Moses, “Do not be afraid of him, for I have handed him over to you, with his whole army and his land. Do to him what you did to Sihon king of the Amorites, who reigned in Heshbon.”

35 So they struck him down, together with his sons and his whole army, leaving them no survivors. And they took possession of his land.

Numbers 25

1 While Israel was staying in Shittim, the men began to indulge in sexual immorality with Moabite women, 2 who invited them to the sacrifices to their gods. The people ate and bowed down before these gods. 3 So Israel joined in worshiping the Baal of Peor. And the Lord’s anger burned against them.

4 The Lord said to Moses, “Take all the leaders of these people, kill them and expose them in broad daylight before the Lord, so that the Lord’s fierce anger may turn away from Israel.”

. . .

16 The Lord said to Moses, 17 “Treat the Midianites as enemies and kill them, 18 because they treated you as enemies. . .

Numbers 31

1 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people.”

3 So Moses said to the people, “Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites and to carry out the Lord’s vengeance on them. . .

7 They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man . … 15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the Lord in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

Numbers 33

55 ” ‘But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land, those you allow to remain will become barbs in your eyes and thorns in your sides. They will give you trouble in the land where you will live. 56 And then I will do to you what I plan to do to them.’ ”

Deuteronomy 2

31 The Lord said to me, “See, I have begun to deliver Sihon and his country over to you. Now begin to conquer and possess his land.” . . . At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed them—men, women and children. We left no survivors

Deuteronomy 7

1 When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you- 2 and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

Joshua 6

20 When the trumpets sounded, the people shouted, and at the sound of the trumpet, when the people gave a loud shout, the wall collapsed; so every man charged straight in, and they took the city. 21 They devoted the city to the Lord and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it—men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.

Joshua 7

14 ” ‘In the morning, present yourselves tribe by tribe. The tribe that the Lord takes shall come forward clan by clan; the clan that the Lord takes shall come forward family by family; and the family that the Lord takes shall come forward man by man. 15 He who is caught with the devoted things shall be destroyed by fire, along with all that belongs to him. He has violated the covenant of the Lord and has done a disgraceful thing in Israel!’ . . .

19 Then Joshua said to Achan, “My son, give glory to the Lord,  the God of Israel, and give him the praise. Tell me what you have done; do not hide it from me.”

20 Achan replied, “It is true! I have sinned against the Lord, the God of Israel.

24 Then Joshua, together with all Israel, took Achan son of Zerah, the silver, the robe, the gold wedge, his sons and daughters, his cattle, donkeys and sheep, his tent and all that he had, to the Valley of Achor. . . .
Then all Israel stoned him, and after they had stoned the rest, they burned them.

Joshua 8

1 Then the Lord said to Joshua, “Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged. Take the whole army with you, and go up and attack Ai. For I have delivered into your hands the king of Ai, his people, his city and his land. 2 You shall do to Ai and its king as you did to Jericho and its king, except that you may carry off their plunder and livestock for yourselves. Set an ambush behind the city.”

. . .

24 When Israel had finished killing all the men of Ai in the fields and in the desert where they had chased them, and when every one of them had been put to the sword, all the Israelites returned to Ai and killed those who were in it. 25 Twelve thousand men and women fell that day—all the people of Ai. 26 For Joshua did not draw back the hand that held out his javelin until he had destroyed all who lived in Ai.

Joshua 10

13 So the sun stood still,
and the moon stopped,
till the nation avenged itself on its enemies,
as it is written in the Book of Jashar.
. . .

22 Joshua said, “Open the mouth of the cave and bring those five kings out to me.” 23 So they brought the five kings out of the cave—the kings of Jerusalem, Hebron, Jarmuth, Lachish and Eglon. 24 When they had brought these kings to Joshua, he summoned all the men of Israel and said to the army commanders who had come with him, “Come here and put your feet on the necks of these kings.” So they came forward and placed their feet on their necks.

25 Joshua said to them, “Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged. Be strong and courageous. This is what the Lord will do to all the enemies you are going to fight.” 26 Then Joshua struck and killed the kings and hung them on five trees, and they were left hanging on the trees until evening.

. . .

29 Then Joshua and all Israel with him moved on from Makkedah to Libnah and attacked it. 30 The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel’s hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho.

. . .

38 Then Joshua and all Israel with him turned around and attacked Debir. 39 They took the city, its king and its villages, and put them to the sword. Everyone in it they totally destroyed. They left no survivors. They did to Debir and its king as they had done to Libnah and its king and to Hebron.

40 So Joshua subdued the whole region, including the hill country, the Negev, the western foothills and the mountain slopes, together with all their kings. He left no survivors. He totally destroyed all who breathed, just as the Lord, the God of Israel, had commanded. 41 Joshua subdued them from Kadesh Barnea to Gaza and from the whole region of Goshen to Gibeon. 42 All these kings and their lands Joshua conquered in one campaign, because the Lord, the God of Israel, fought for Israel.

Joshua 12

7 So Joshua and his whole army came against them suddenly at the Waters of Merom and attacked them, 8 and the Lord gave them into the hand of Israel. They defeated them and pursued them all the way to Greater Sidon, to Misrephoth Maim, and to the Valley of Mizpah on the east, until no survivors were left. . . .

10 At that time Joshua turned back and captured Hazor and put its king to the sword. (Hazor had been the head of all these kingdoms.) 11 Everyone in it they put to the sword. They totally destroyed them, not sparing anything that breathed, and he burned up Hazor itself.

12 Joshua took all these royal cities and their kings and put them to the sword. He totally destroyed them, as Moses the servant of the Lord had commanded. . . .

20 For it was the Lord himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against Israel, so that he might destroy them totally, exterminating them without mercy, as the Lord had commanded Moses.

21 At that time Joshua went and destroyed the Anakites from the hill country: from Hebron, Debir and Anab, from all the hill country of Judah, and from all the hill country of Israel. Joshua totally destroyed them and their towns. 22 No Anakites were left in Israelite territory; only in Gaza, Gath and Ashdod did any survive. 23 So Joshua took the entire land, just as the Lord had directed Moses, and he gave it as an inheritance to Israel according to their tribal divisions.
Then the land had rest from war.

Discuss

Do you see any conflict between the commandment not to kill and the Israelites’ perception that God directed Joshua to annihilate the inhabitants of the land?

If we see a conflict between “do not kill”  and “but kill and uterly destroy an entire people and all life associated with them”, can we reconcile these scriptural passages?  Are they reconcilable?

If either see no conflict, or if we reconcile them, have we used some form of the Wesleyan Quadrilateral in doing so?

If  you were living during the time of Joshua, how would you know when Joshua told you, “thus saith the Lord – kill all that lives and breathes in the land” that the order was in fact sanctioned by God?  If Joshua were living today and said God told him that you were to kill all people of a certain religion other than our own, would you believe it and act on it because he was Joshua?

Do Christians today claim God’s call to destruction of our enemies or of those that we believe are enemies of God?  How do we test the claims made for what is God’s will?

How do we reconcile these passages with the command of Jesus to love our enemies, or to turn the other cheek?

 

Next blog post: Offenses Punishable by Death               https://wordpress.com/post/lovejudgenot.wordpress.com/68

Detestable or Abominable Things

The Bible is often quoted to condemn homosexual acts as “abominable” or “destable.”  We will look at other abominable or detestable things or acts to give some context to the condemnation.

Leviticus 7

19 ” ‘Meat that touches anything ceremonially unclean must not be eaten; it must be burned up. . . .. 20 But if anyone who is unclean eats any meat of the fellowship offering belonging to the LORD, that person must be cut off from his people. 21 If anyone touches something unclean—whether human uncleanness or an unclean animal or any unclean, detestable thing—and then eats any of the meat of the fellowship offering belonging to the LORD, that person must be cut off from his people.’ ”

22 The LORD said to Moses, 23 “Say to the Israelites: ‘Do not eat any of the fat of cattle, sheep or goats. . . .. 25 Anyone who eats the fat of an animal from which an offering by fire may be made to the LORD must be cut off from his people. 26 And wherever you live, you must not eat the blood of any bird or animal. 27 If anyone eats blood, that person must be cut off from his people.’ ”

Leviticus 11:12

12 Anything living in the water that does not have fins and scales is to be detestable to you.

Leviticus 11:12-14

12 Anything living in the water that does not have fins and scales is to be detestable to you.

13 ” ‘These are the birds you are to detest and not eat because they are detestable: the eagle, the vulture, the black vulture, 14 the red kite, any kind of black kite,

Leviticus 11:20

20 ” ‘All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you.

Leviticus 11:41

41 ” ‘Every creature that moves about on the ground is detestable; it is not to be eaten.

Leviticus 11:42

42 You are not to eat any creature that moves about on the ground, whether it moves on its belly or walks on all fours or on many feet; it is detestable.

Leviticus 18:22

22 ” ‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

Leviticus 18:28-30

28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.

29 ” ‘Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. 30 Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the LORD your God.’ ”

Leviticus 20:13

13 ” ‘If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Deuteronomy 7

25 The images of their gods you are to burn in the fire. Do not covet the silver and gold on them, and do not take it for yourselves, or you will be ensnared by it, for it is detestable to the LORD your God. 26 Do not bring a detestable thing into your house or you, like it, will be set apart for destruction. Utterly abhor and detest it, for it is set apart for destruction.

Deuteronomy 13

12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in 13 that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. 16 Gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. It is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt.

Discuss

Do you do, or have you done, any of the acts above-declared to be detestible or abominable?  Do you eat shrimp?  Catfish? Bacon or pork?  Defiled the land by throwing trash out upon it?  Put batteries of paint into the trash?

How are the words “detestible” or “abominable” used or applied in the above passages?  Are they always the same use?  Do we evenly apply them as we read these passages today?

Are the consequences of doing detestible or abominable things always the same in the passages?  If not, why the difference?  If the rules do not apply to us today or apply but with different consequences, how do we know what God authorizes for alteration or expungement?

If our position is that these are ritual rules of the Old Testament, but that Jesus fulfilled the law so that we are not today bound by it, then why do Christians apply them to some situations but not to others?

To what degree, whether these rules are determined to be given by God or determined by man to be God-ordained, are they and their extent determined by the circumstances of that time, so that their validity depends upon the existence of those conditions and disappear of are validly changed with a change of those conditions?

If they change because of the change of conditions, how does God ordain or authorize the new rules?

 

Next blog post: Thou Shalt Not Kill, but…               https://wordpress.com/post/lovejudgenot.wordpress.com/65

Scriptural Accounts of How God Has Been Heard to Speak

The Bible is often cited not only as a history of the Jewish nation, but it is also often cited as a general historical record and as a repository of the “Word of God.”  We will explore here the Bible’s own references to claims that God directly spoke to individuals.  The scriptures are of the New International Version.

Genesis 46:2

And God spoke to Israel in a vision at night and said, “Jacob! Jacob!” “Here I am,” he replied.

Exodus 3:1-10

¹ Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian, and he led the flock to the far side of the desert and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. ² There the angel of the Lord appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up. ³ So Moses thought, “I will go over and see this strange sight—why the bush does not burn up.”

1 Samuel 3:1-10

 ¹ The boy Samuel ministered before the Lord under Eli. In those days the word of the Lord was rare; there were not many visions.

² One night Eli, whose eyes were becoming so weak that he could barely see, was lying down in his usual place. ³ The lamp of God had not yet gone out, and Samuel was lying down in the temple of the Lord, where the ark of God was. ⁴ Then the Lord called Samuel.
Samuel answered, “Here I am.” ⁵ And he ran to Eli and said, “Here I am; you called me.”
But Eli said, “I did not call; go back and lie down.” So he went and lay down.

[Moses, Samuel and various prophets reported to the people that which they “heard” the Lord tell them.]

Psalm 19:1

¹ The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.

Psalm 25:14

¹⁴ The Lord confides in those who fear him;
he makes his covenant known to them.

Proverbs 3:5-6

⁵ Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;

⁶ in all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make your paths straight.

 Numbers 12

1 Miriam and Aaron began to talk against Moses because of his Cushite wife, for he had married a Cushite. 2 “Has the Lord spoken only through Moses?” they asked. “Hasn’t he also spoken through us?” And the Lord heard this.

3 (Now Moses was a very humble man, more humble than anyone else on the face of the earth.)

 4 At once the Lord said to Moses, Aaron and Miriam, “Come out to the Tent of Meeting, all three of you.” So the three of them came out. 5 Then the Lord came down in a pillar of cloud; he stood at the entrance to the Tent and summoned Aaron and Miriam. When both of them stepped forward, 6 he said, “Listen to my words:
       “When a prophet of the Lord is among you,
       I reveal myself to him in visions,
       I speak to him in dreams.

 7 But this is not true of my servant Moses;
       he is faithful in all my house.

 8 With him I speak face to face,
       clearly and not in riddles;
       he sees the form of the Lord.

John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known. 

John 6:46
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

1 John 4:12
No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

Hebrews 1:1-4

¹In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, ²but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. ³The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. ⁴So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

2 Peter 1

¹⁶We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. ¹⁷For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”^{] 18}We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.

¹⁹And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. ²⁰Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation. ²¹For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Discuss

Have you ever heard the voice of God?

If so, how did you know it was the voice of God?

Do you know of anyone who claims to have heard the voice of God?

How was that perceived?

What was the message?

What difference did it make?

What is the difference is there, if any, between God speaking and God inspiring?

How do you test the claims of God’s will, or your own perception of God speaking if not with some form of the Wesleyan Quadrilateral?

How does the Wesleyan Quadrilateral aid in, or facilitate, our hearing the voice of God?  Interpreting it?  Understanding it?  Acting upon it?

Do you perceive God’s Will for GLBT persons?  For the church community regarding those individuals among us?

What do you hear?

How are we called to act upon that?

 

Next blog post: Detestable or Abominable Things               https://wordpress.com/post/lovejudgenot.wordpress.com/59

The Wesleyan Quadrilateral

The Wesleyan Quadrilateral is a A Tool To Understanding The Christian Faith

http://www.fmcsb.org/quad.html:

Among Methodists the Wesleyan Quadrilateral, provides a useful tool for understanding the Christian faith. Derived from John Wesley’s theological approach, the Quadrilateral refers to Scripture, Tradition, Reason, and Experience. For Wesley scripture was the primary source, but the Christian tradition, reason, and experience added depth of discernment.

The Wesleyan Quadrilateral

“[John Wesley] demonstrated a holistic understanding of the Christian faith that superseded his particular skills a bibilical exegete or sytematic theologian.”

Wesley “appealed to tradition, reason, and experience as complementary sources of religious authority. These sources, together with the primary religious authority of Scripture, contributed to an approach to theology that continues to provide insight for Christians today.”

-Donald A.D. Thorsen

The Wesleyan Quadrilateral” by Donald A.D. Thorsen (©1997, Light and Life Communications).

http://www.kantwesley.com/Wesley/Quadrilateral.html:

We see the scriptures and the personal experiences. These personal experiences can also be conceived to encompass the tradition, i.e., the experiences and thinking of the church “fathers” as well as the experiences of all sorts of people from peasant to pope who have been possessed of the Holy Spirit, e.g., the life and experience of Francis of Assisi as well as Thomas Aquinas, etc., etc.

The fourth side, and which might even be considered as the foundation, is reason or rationality itself, and not only as the source of experience and science in general, but also and more specifically as the formal repository of the voice of God as expressed in the conscience, and whereby we are kept from falling into sheer subjectivism. I am speaking of the moral law of God which so amazed Immanuel Kant, i.e., “the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me!”

And so now we can grasp the elements of Wesley’s quadrilateral altogether now as a unity: scripture, tradition, reason and experience, all working together reciprocally to fashion the “Christ in me” such that I too can speak authoritatively with regard to right and wrong and good and evil, and of the power of God, for the same spirit that moves me, moved the bible writers and the line of Christians from Christ to myself, and all under a rubric of rationality and sense.

 

Next blog post: Scripture Accounts of How God Has Been Heard to Speak               https://wordpress.com/post/lovejudgenot.wordpress.com/55