6 On Implications of a Dualistic World

Robert Wheeler: If I believed in a dualistic world, spirit above vs matter below, and in the notion that humankind lost its “image of God” to Original Sin, Frank’s argument (hmm . . . man’s logic getting in the way of living?) might be appealing. I see “righteousness,” not as a passing grade on God’s rules of the game test but as living in right relationship. We, again, will have to lovingly agree to disagree?

Of course we can disagree and I’m glad we’re both in agreement that disagreement does not equal hatred. But you have to admit, Frank accurately reflects what the Bible actually says, he didn’t make this up.

Dualism can mean a lot of things, not at all sure what you intend. Spirit above vs matter below seems to have a bit of a yin-yang connotation that is not at all how God reveals himself in His Word. By definition we are different from God, though uniquely created to be a reflection of God’s image, according to the Scriptures.

SMS: I haven’t had time to read any of the sermons, but hope to do so soon. However, your comment about humankind loosing it’s “image of God” to Original Sin is an interesting perspective. I think I can agree with that. Also, whoever is judging those who are homosexual had better be careful of their own sins. A sin is a sin is a sin is a sin!

SMS, you’ll find that you share Frank’s perspective that sin is sin, that’s critical to Frank’s point. The Gospel makes no sense apart from seeing what God reveals as his perspective of sin. His perfect holiness and perfect justice could only be reconciled with his love in Christ on the cross. The message of Scripture is not that SOME sins are not okay, but that ALL sin is not okay and we all have a problem of eternal magnitude in the coming judgement. Jesus said we are to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect – we all miss that mark and eventually discover we didn’t just miss, we were aiming the opposite direction. Unless God himself does something we’re doomed, and that’s exactly what he did do in Christ Jesus…offered to all who will repent and rest their hope in him.

According to Scripture we aren’t to judge those outside the church, we are to declare truth and offer them the hope of salvation and deliverance from their sins. For those in the church, we are commanded to build each other up in the grace and knowledge of God, encourage each other to holiness, obedience and dependance on Christ alone with an attitude of thanksgiving. Judgement begins with the household of God, says Paul.

 

Next blog post: 7 The Gospel Message That I Hear               https://wordpress.com/post/lovejudgenot.wordpress.com/507

6 On Implications of a Dualistic World

12 My Response to My Friend

My Friend, I respect your reply as sincere.  This response is more clear than your latter: here you don’t just imply that Julian’s choice is sin, but you come right out that it is sin, but he is nonetheless welcome in the church, but the implication here, if not explicit, is that he will not be saved until he acknowledges that he is a woman, acts like it and consistent with it, and confesses his sin.  Of course none of that acknowledges his undeniably male self or the inherent conflict, both genetically and bodily.
My Friend, we have had many conversations about religion, and as I understand your position, only a religion that is founded on scripture, as it is found in our current version of the Old and New Testaments is valid.  I do think that when Jesus says, I have sheep of other flocks that you do not know, and I must gather them, also, he was talking only of non-Jewish, Christian groups that had not yet formed at that time, if even he referred to them at all..  I do think that God has many whom he loves and receives that do not know or even call on the name of Jesus.  Those are people, I think, that Jesus would include in his statement, “By their fruits you will know them.”

I actually had hopes of presenting gay’s, lesbians and trans-sexual in a way that would finally help Christians, both fundamentalist and those not so literal, to accept them as brothers and sisters, loved by God and accepted as they are within the fold of God’s love and blessings.  It is now clear to me that there will always be those who will use Holy Scripture to bash, to separate and denegrade people who they are not in a position to judge, but nonetheless judge.

With that, perhaps it is best to acknowledge we will never agree because of irreconcilable differences, but to accept the love such Christians can give to me and the GLBT community, as conditional as it is, not based upon any real love and acceptance, but upon God’s command to love (however one does that given the judgment).

Thank you for going to the trouble to respond in detail.  It helps me to know what I am up against in my call for full inclusion of all those who love God and Jesus.  I understand and acknowledge the logical persuasiveness of your argument, given your premises.  I consider my premises to be as fully founded on God, but they are not so limited.  I have no hope of persuading you to these, as you have no basis for hope to persuade me to yours.  I don’t know that a fundamentalist view must doom one to eternal damnation, if the fundamentalist can truly love despite the judgment.  I choose to believe that whatever that reward is, Jesus’ welcome into eternal reward of those who cared for others, fed them, clothed them, and gave them shelter will include all those who did so, without regard to articulated faith or reasons for doing so: fundamentalists, atheists, Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, and many faiths that have not been yet articulated.

Love, Rob

 

Next blog post: 13 My Friend’s Response to Me               https://wordpress.com/post/lovejudgenot.wordpress.com/362

12 My Response to My Friend